in your own work. That's the trend I notice.
That in a sense makes one strive for perfection, but actually hit it? Is there really such thing?
Craig L.
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Ever built a perfect one? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9467 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | mhammond [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I was out in the garage doing the final sanding of the Zpoxy on #5 tonite. As this is the final chance you get to fix the inevitable little dings, scratches, and dents before spraying I noticed three unfixable "glitches". They're so small the new owner (nor anyone else) will probably never notice them. But, I know they're there. The thoughts popped into my thick skull, "I wonder if I will ever build a perfect one?". " I wonder if anyone has ever built what they consider to be a perfect one?" Well senior members? have you ever?. Has some of the challenge been lost? Is building less fun now? Inquiring minds want to know...... |
|
| Author: | Rod True [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Good question Mike, I would like to know the answer to this too. |
|
| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
No, and if I ever did I'd stop building. Anyway one person's perfect guitar would be another's dog, as far as sound goes. And, I like different styles of playing so I need at least 4 'perfect' ones. Oh, and three perfect lutes and a couple of perfect classicals, then of course I'd need a 'perfect' guitar-bazouki, and a 'perfect'...... Don't you think it would be a bit arrogant to claim perfection? Why didn't I just stop with "No"? Colin Colin |
|
| Author: | Wade Sylvester [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I like William Cumpiano's views on perfection. "Perfection: phooey! Perfection is the enemy of the Good. I've seen too many indulging this illusion, get stuck fine-sanding each kerfing chip and then crash-burning out of the craft." Wade |
|
| Author: | Pwoolson [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
While I alway strive for perfection, I know for a fact that I'll never get there. But, for me anyway, I have to start every guitar with the attitude of "this one is going to be perfect" and keep reminding myself of that throughout the build. Otherwise, I think I'd let mistakes go and they would pile up and the build wouldn't even be good. It's a good challenge to strive for perfection. I'm really hard on myself and if I can simply say, "I'm happy with this one", I think that's a pretty good guitar. |
|
| Author: | clavin [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
in your own work. That's the trend I notice. That in a sense makes one strive for perfection, but actually hit it? Is there really such thing?
Craig L. |
|
| Author: | Tom Morici [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Perfect, no such thing. Since the number system is infinite. We can only build to a measured tolerance. As close as we can get is near flawless. At least this is what we where taught when I was training to be a machinist. Tom |
|
| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've never built a perfect instrument, but i've sure liked alot of the ones that I've built. I've also never seen what I would consider a perfect instrument from the shop of any other builder.....from the big houses to all of the solo shops. I say this inspite of the fact that some builders would have us all believe that they are capable of perfection on a consistent basis....these are guys whose guitars i've seen and played and have been surprized at the number of shortcomings in their construction from the assembly process to the very final finish steps and set up parameters. The guitars will always reveal the true ability of the builder in spite of what they say. I've loved guitars that i've played from the largest shops in the world and could have easily compiled a long list of shortcomings in others. The same is true of the guitars that I've played from small shops and solo luthiers....I've loved alot and didn't like others at all. The convenient difference with my own guitars is that I can make a list of things I'm really not satisfied with and then work my down that list correcting each one to my satisfaction. Even with all of the details on a guitars meeting my expectations and requirements, it never means perfection, but only as close as i'm able to coax that particular set of components. I doubt you'll find a single builder that will claim they've achieved perfection....even one time.....and if you do, we'll know he's either not being completely honest or thinks way too much of himself and his skills. It's not hard to flip a guitar around from even the most highly touted builders and pick out some small detail that could have been made better with a little more attention, especially for another builder with a trained eye for guitar construction. I've done it with guitars that had cost their customers more than $20k and it took only a few seconds, but I'd never point those small flaws out to their owners out of respect for them and their investment as well as to the builder who created the guitar. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
|
| Author: | Dave White [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] I'd never point those small flaws out to their owners out of respect for them and their investment as well as to the builder who created the guitar. [/QUOTE] Kevin, As Paul Simon so eloquently wrote (and sang): "One mans' ceiling is another mans' flaw" 
|
|
| Author: | burbank [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm so far from it, I don't think I could achieve it in my lifetime. Wouldn't want to either. If you did build a perfect guitar, what would you do next? The closest I ever hope for in seeking perfection is, "I built the best one I could" and hope I can say the same of the next one. |
|
| Author: | Graham Steward [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Wade S.] I like William Cumpiano's views on perfection. "Perfection: phooey! Perfection is the enemy of the Good. I've seen too many indulging this illusion, get stuck fine-sanding each kerfing chip and then crash-burning out of the craft." Wade[/QUOTE] You're not supposed to fine sand your kerfing? I suppose next you'll tell me I don't need to pore fill or French Polish the kerfing either. 
|
|
| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I once made a guitar that was perfectly awful. Does that count? |
|
| Author: | drfuzz [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't worry about perfection... I am striving for excellent  Luthiery can reach a point where perfection becomes a detriment.... We might produce 'perfect' guitars, but nobody would want to pay for them. The attention to detail is better spent on those things we all agree count - sound, playability, etc.
And of course you waould have to start with perfect wood - not easy to find  |
|
| Author: | Kim [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Shucks, I been building a perfect one every night for ages, but when I wake up, its gone again.
Cheers Kim |
|
| Author: | guitarjtb [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Pwoolson] While I alway strive for perfection, I know for a fact that I'll never get there. But, for me anyway, I have to start every guitar with the attitude of "this one is going to be perfect" and keep reminding myself of that throughout the build. Otherwise, I think I'd let mistakes go and they would pile up and the build wouldn't even be good. It's a good challenge to strive for perfection. I'm really hard on myself and if I can simply say, "I'm happy with this one", I think that's a pretty good guitar.[/QUOTE] I know I won't ever get there. It is so difficult to make it thru the entire process without a ding, a missed miter, a spit in the gun, a slip of the fret file, and on and on. The little mahogany guitar you had at the jam was pretty close. To get a whole lot closer to perfect than that one is really not necessary in my opinion. Trust me, I looked it over pretty good. If I needed a small body, all mahogany, finger style guitar, without a sunburst, built by a northerner, I would have serious G.A.S. for that one. 
|
|
| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
In the guitar I'm building - for myself - perfection isn't even on my radar. It's not something I care about, and aesthetically have a distaste for. I don't believe a flawless thing is reflective of reality. There's a gap in my rosette that I wish weren't there, but I'm satisfied. I strive for satisfaction in what I do. What happens if something gets a ding? When things like that happen and the response we'd have is that something just lost it's supposed perfection, it's a shame, because it presumes – or we presume – that we really understand all there is to understand about the thing in the time we've already had with it. This is a bit philosophical, yeah, but it seems that over time as I look at things I've made, they take on a deeper meaning than the instance. They begin to represent a place, a moment, a time; and inherent in that is a bigger kind of truth than a flawless execution. I have a mirror I made for my dad in seventh grade. There's no symetry, the lines aren't straight, and the stain is splotchy. The note I wrote on the back has some grammatical errors (pronoun agreement). So I'm more interested in veracity than in something without a mistake. That's much more attractive and appealing to me. I have to speek broadly because I haven't finished the guitar I'm making. |
|
| Author: | K.O. [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Have been guilty of becoming invested as if it where possible to breathe life into a dulcimer, reaching for the mojo, hearing a sound and trying to build it. It has also been fun to throw a few together, some by rippin Home Depot oak & hemlock base or WRC. It is hard to take yourself to seriously when you are trying to intuit how different tone faerie like their homes built. |
|
| Author: | Chris Cordle [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I believe it is the Amish craftsman who purposely instills a flaw into each creation as his belief is only God can create something perfect. Perfection is nice to strive for, just be willing to accept that we all fall short. |
|
| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=uncleshish] I believe it is the Amish craftsman who purposely instills a flaw into each creation as his belief is only God can create something perfect. [/QUOTE] I believe that Islamic craftsmen that believe that. Colin |
|
| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
uncleshish, That is an Amish tradition among fine craftsmen, like furniture and cabinaet makers. You'll see it posted in their shops sometimes in some quaint poetic verse, but those flaws are so minute and meaningless that untrained eyes may never spot them. We used to frequent the Amish farms in and around the Lancaster area when I was buying woods from a very friendly guy who was in his 90s at the time. He had built beautiful cabinets for all of the Amish homebuilders for decades, but had branched out into importing and sawing great woods from all over the world out of his love for seeing and beng able to work with it. When he passed away, we were able to attend his memorial services where long lines of people came to his small home with stories of how they'd become friends through doing business with him. Those flaws were present in every piece of work he'd ever done, but all he'd done it for still loved his work and came back time and time again to have him do more. It was a great testiment to the depth of the relationships that we can enjoy as a result of doing business with one another, being fair and honest, and being humble as we create the things that we do....which, in our case are guitars. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
|
| Author: | Wade Sylvester [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I strive to someday understand every unconscious flaw that I instill into each instrument I build. Perfection is when my nephew picks up and plays my latest build and asks, "why is this so loud?". Or maybe that’s Priceless. Wade |
|
| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, here's the way i see it if you dare to read it!
I am always humbled when building a guitar, i see it as a gift and i feel like a blessed child and always think that my hands are guided and if perfection there is, it won't be mine, being thankful for the results at the end. |
|
| Author: | Bob Long [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm really enjoying everyones thoughts on this subject. The ideas of sanding kerfing and being guided by the muse of perfection reminded me of this story. The owners of a home I was working on wanted their cabinets built by an old craftman who was know for these wonderful and intricit carvings he did on drawer fronts, but the wife didn't think they would match the rest of the kicthen. She asked if he would leave the fronts plain. When he was finished the family found he had indeed left the fronts plain, but had done his carving on the inside of one of the drawers. What's interesting is that they show everyone who visits their home the drawer with the carving! - Much of our efforts to reach perfection we do for our own satisfaction... but it's nice when others notice. thanks long |
|
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=uncleshish] I believe it is the Amish craftsman who purposely instills a flaw into each creation as his belief is only God can create something perfect. Perfection is nice to strive for, just be willing to accept that we all fall short.[/QUOTE] That's it then! I MUST be....AMISH! I read a quote from Bob Taylor once, where he told a big-shot banker representative or someone of the sort, "out of 100 guitars that Taylor produces we have maybe 3 that are exceptional......the other 97 are PERFECT!" (Now, no ugly letters back to me...I'm just quoting the man!).
|
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|